Kurzweil:Dead Letters July 1998
From Sonikmatter
27: Re: Digital out noise in K25
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:43:02 -0700 From: Barry Reynolds <breynold@RCF.USC.EDU> Subject: ########## 27: Re: Digital out noise in K25
At 04:48 PM 7/1/98 -0500, Daniel Fisher wrote: ...the Kurzweil reports that it is locked to 44.1Khz BUT the sound makes that digital clicking distortion that I associate with clock problems/rate incompatibilities. This is an unuseable amount of distortion.
Anyone have an explanation?
Yes, the 44.1 locking message on K2500 sample page refers to input
only. The sampling option output is fixed at 48khz.
Hi Barry,
Fortunately, the Sampling Option's output is *not* fixed at 48kHz.
Try this: Go to the Kurzweil's Sampler page, change the Input
parameter from "Digital" to "Analog". Now change the Rate parameter from "48kHz" to "44.1kHz". Now switch the Input parameter back to "Digital". "Yea!"
This nifty trick is also useful when changing the Digital Out from
AES/EBU to S/PDIF and back. Again, get out of Digital for a second, make the switch, and then change from Analog to Digital one last time.
Hope this is what you're looking for....
Daniel Fisher Sweetwater Sound (your Kurzweil experts:-)
147: Re: aftertouch and microtones
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:12:56 -0700 From: Blake Stone <bwstone@CONCENTRIC.NET> Subject: ########## 147: Re: aftertouch and microtones
> i'm wondering if there's some way to program the aftertouch such that it
> will act like an on/off switch as far as raising the pitch.
This is VAST! Of course there's a way... there are probably several. My approach is as follows:
1) Go to the PITCH page and set the depth as desired but change the source
to FUN1 instead of MPress. We're going to use one of the built in FUNctions to do our dirty work.
2) Go to the FUN page (it's four screens to the right, if memory serves.)
Change the settings for FUN1 as follows: A should be MPress, B should be ON, and the function should be set to "Quantize B to A."
Your pitchbend should now be "all or nothing." VAST's functions provide endless ways to change input from a modulation source before it reaches its destination. The manual gives a pretty good description of the various functions available and their behavior, and beyond that, some experimentation goes a long way.
- Blake Stone
485: KDFX Algorithm
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:02:35 -0700 Reply-To: K2000 user's group <K2000@AMERICAN.EDU> Sender: K2000 user's group <K2000@AMERICAN.EDU> From: Blake Stone <bwstone@CONCENTRIC.NET> Subject: ########## 485: KDFX Algorithm Overview (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've just spend the past two hours walking through every algorithm shipped with the KDFX, tweaking parameters and giving each one a good initial listen with a variety of instruments and settings. I am _very_ impressed, but that's been said before on the list. Nobody has taken the time to dive into a more detailed subjective description, though, so I'm going to undertake just that task. Settle in for the ride, because there's lots to cover...
-- Focusing on Algorithms --
Others have already covered the use KDFX to do multi-effects in a song, and the technical nitty-gritty of what algorithm has what parameters are covered in the manual available from Kurzweil's FTP site. I've already posted a bit about the signal routing options in the KDFX, so I'm going to focus on the _sound_ of individual effects. How do the algorithms stack up? How many PAUs do you need to get what you want?
-- Algorithm Types --
There are 108 algorithms that ship with the stock KDFX unit, of which 106 are devoted to manipulating sound in one way or another. The two other algorithms provide visual feedback but don't produce sound. One is for stereo image analysis and diagnostic tool to give you a visual image of how real-time controllers are mapped to parameters.
The available algorithms are categorized as follows: Reverbs, Delays, Choruses/ Flanges/Phasers, Combinations, Distortion, Rotary Speaker Emulation, Special Effects, and Studio/Mixdown Effects. I'll write about each category in turn, giving special attention to those of particular interest to me, and wimping out on some because there's just so much there! It's impossible to absorb everything in a single pass.
Before continuing, let me add that the KDFX manuals are quite explicit: you _CAN_ load additional algorithms from disk. I don't know whether third parties are going to be given enough documentation to write their own, but Kurzweil seems to be planning to add some at a later date. It's something to look forward to, but I'm going to be very, very busy just trying to take advantage of what's there already.
-- Reverbs --
There are 15 different reverb algorithms, with sizes ranging from 1 to 3 PAUs (you have 4 PAUs shared between the four stereo busses, and another 3 for the auxiliary bus... so 1PAU effects are very important if you want a wide variety available at once.)
The 1PAU "MiniVerb" is astonishingly good. I was expecting some audible compromises from the smallest reverb, but it's very warm, capable of extreme clarify and crispness, and doesn't exhibit any of the metallic ringing that creeps into altogether too many digital reverbs. It compares very nicely with my DP/4, and blows away the Digitech chip. The biggest drawbacks of the MiniVerb are limited control (you get individual early reflection delay times for L/R channels, decay time, room type, size, some basic diffusion controls and damping frequency settings, but that's about it) and a monotonous reverb tail for long decays. Ie: there's no "movement" in the decaying sound.
The bigger multi-PAU reverbs give much more control. Some offer gentle LFO based movement in the reverb tail, others give much better EQ control over the reflective space. Some are optimized for tight spaces, others for large halls. It's also worth noting that the MiniVerb is essentially a mono in, stereo out reverb. This isn't normally a big deal since the stereo image disperses very quickly in most environments, but few purists will like the _true_ stereo-in, stereo-out reverbs and since you always have room for a 3PAU effect on the auxiliary bus, this is a good place for such a beast.
Other goodies? The reverse reverb is great up to about 800ms and also keeps a delayed signal for an optional "hit" at any point in the reverb chain. Beyond 800ms the reverb buildup has some audible repetition for percussive sounds, even though settings up to 3000ms are allowed.
The dual MiniVerb is also nice touch. It's a 2PAU effect, and uses the left and right channels as inputs to two completely different MiniVerbs, each with its own settings. Why not use two individual MiniVerbs? Because this way you only tie up one of your four effects busses and get two reverbs... and since the MiniVerb input is actually mono anyway, all you lose is stereo placement of the dry signal.
-- Delays --
Since the delays are 100% digital, you get pristine repetitions of your sound with up to 100% regeneration and high frequency damping control over the regeneration loop.
There are a variety of delay algorithms, including a 1PAU 4-tap stereo delay with a maximum delay time of 2540ms and a 2PAU 8-tap stereo delay with up to 5100ms of delay time. All of the delays offer the ability to specify delay times in beats, and sync to a specific BPM, or the system tempo (even slaved to an external sequencer!) This is a great touch, though I have yet to torture it with changing tempos to see how well it tracks them. I wouldn't expect miracles, but for steady tempos it saves all the math involved in getting your delay loop and taps synchronized to a given tempo.
The "spectral delay" is a nice addition. Available in a 2PAU 4-tap and 3PAU 6-tap configuration, each tap gets its own shaper, pitcher, level, and pan position. The shaper is similar to VAST's shaper, bringing out additional harmonics in a sound, which the pitcher can create a pitched sound of a specific frequency from non-pitched information like a hi-hat or snare.
-- Chorus / Phaser / Flanger --
The chorus is pleasant and smooth, and offers pretty deep control. The delay until the chorused voice joins in is selectable from 4ms up well beyond the musically useful range, the shape, speed, and depth of the chorus LFO is adjustable, and a single 1PAU effect can offer two independent chorusing setups for the left and right channels of an effects bus.
Flanging and phasing range from subtle to overt, with 2PAU variations providing more simultaneous detuned voices (four with the 2PAU effects, only 2 with the 1PAU in the algorithms I dug into.)
-- Combinations --
When I first read about the KDFX's signal routing, I was surprised that you couldn't route one effects bus into another (with the exception of the aux bus.) After all, combining several effects in series is absolutely necessary for some purposes. Fear not, because the combination algorithms offer a pretty wide selection of 2- and 3-effect chains that can be set up in series or parallel on a single effects bus. Most of the chains that use only delay, chorus, and flanging in a fixed order use only 1PAU, while chains involving reverb are typically 2PAU effects.
I've found that many "multi-effects" processors have frustrating limitations on the order of effects. A delayed reverb _does_ sound different than a reverbed delay, and many boxes only give you one of the two. Again, Kurzweil comes through with many combination algorithms that let you pick which effect comes first. These are typically (always?) 2PAU effects, but the flexibility is a welcome addition.
Some of my favorites on a first listen are the Reverb<>Shaper (the "<>" symbol means that the order can be switched) the Quantize+Flange (which can produce lovely grungy effects) and the Reverb<>Compressor. The latter is one of the few 3PAU combination effects, but considering that it gives a full, lush reverb and a fully configurable compressor with sidechain EQ and 30 adjustable parameters... I'm not complaining. Compress the tail of that reverb for you? Let the rumble through, and only compress when the tail has high frequency content? Yes, sir!
-- Distortion --
I'm not the world largest distortion connoisseur, so I only spent enough time to find that all my needs would be served. There's a trivial 1PAU distortion algorithm that is quite limited, sounding more like an overdriven transistor than anything, but the 2PAU distortion was quite serviceable, and the 3PAU effects offer a range of tube amplifier simulations with cabinet emulation or tunable EQ, integrated delays, and tons of other goodies.
The grunge could be warm or thin according to need, and a simple steel string guitar becomes a dangerous wailing weapon without too much work.
-- Rotary Speaker Emulation --
Heaven. Absolute heaven. Kurzweil went all out on this one, and combined with KB3 it's quite an amazing beast. The simplest versions are 2PAU effects, but there's a 4PAU version and a full 7PAU version that uses one effects bus and the auxiliary bus together. You don't need to devote your entire KDFX unit to the task, though, as the smaller versions are pretty fully featured.
To be honest, I couldn't really feel much difference between the 4PAU and 7PAU speaker emulations, because the 4PAU version is so good to begin with. Doubtless there are subtleties that make it worthwhile if you're going to devote your K2500 to the task of _being_ a B3... but the differences are subtle. With the 4PAU version you can control microphone placement (two per speaker), crossover frequencies between the two speakers, speaker rotation speed and direction, chorus or vibrato, distortion, and cabinet emulation. Everything from sparkling clean sounds to deep and dirty sounded great, though they didn't go far as to emulate the sound of the leslie motors and the "click" of engaging them. I know... whine, whine, whine. :-)
To get away with a 2PAU version, you need to sacrifice either distortion _or_ microphone placement, vibrato/chorus, and cabinet emulation. If you can live without one or the other you still get an absolute world class leslie simulation with the rest of the bells and whistles intact.
-- Special Effects --
I didn't spend much time with the ring modulation, pitcher, or super shaper. They all looked pretty nifty, and I'll doubtless find a need for them at some point. What I _did_ play with for a while was the filter. Why? VAST has filters, too, so what's so special about the KDFX filters? They feel a little warmer, for one, but more importantly they're _very_ responsive. The envelope follower and LFO "snap" from closed to closed with an expressive sweep that VAST can't emulate because VAST's realtime controls including envelopes are only measured 50 times a second. Here's where you'll get those analog-gear-of-yesteryear emulations down pat. And of course being able to apply processing to the sum of several voices adds a new flavor as well. Price of entry? 2PAUs for a single stereo filter, or dual mono filters.
-- Studio/Mixdown Effects --
Similarly, I glossed over the tremolo, EQ (because there are already two bands of basic EQ per input channel in the KDFX and I didn't want to waste a single precious PAU on more EQ), skipped past the gate, and bypassed the stereo enhancers pausing only long enough to realize that the SRS encoder needs about a 5dB cut on output to avoid amplifying most signals. I spent a little more time on the compressors and the enhancer.
The compressors, in both soft and hard knee variants, are extremely responsive. They'll clamp down on a transient so fast it'll make your head spin, worked wonders in adding sustain to a variety of voices, and vary from extremely subtle at 1:1 (okay, so that's more than just subtle) to absolutely stonewalling at Inf:1. You get pretty subtle control up to about 19:1, after which it leaps from 30:1 to 50:1 to 100:1 before going to Inf:1. Starting in an entirely digital domain with a lot of dynamic range to spare, I never heard a hint of grit even when boosting a highly compressed signal by 30-40dB. Control over the opening and closing time for the compressor is very granular, and you can even clamp down on fast transients with a gradual compression attack by adding a touch of delay to the audio signal, while the compressor uses the real-time signal to get advance warning of when to clamp down.
The basic compressor is 1PAU, if you want the controlling signal (the "sidechain" in compressor-speak) to be EQ'ed first you can get there with a 2PAU version. There's also a compressor that divides the audio into three different frequency ranges, compresses each separately and combines them for a health 4PAUs. I'm not sure what I'd need it for since it distorts the balance of the instruments I tried it with, but you never know.
I absolutely _love_ the enhancer (or exciter, or whatever you want to call it.) It brightened up the sounds I tried it on with no effort, and none of the digital noise I normally associate with this kind of effect. The one I spent my time with is a basic 2-band enhancer and a 1PAU effect, but a 2PAU 3-band enhancer is also available.
-- Closing Notes --
I'm very, very impressed. I love everything I've heard and can't wait to spend more time digging into the depths of the KDFX. One of the first things on my list is going to be real-time control. The few parameters I tried (compression threshold and tube drive) could both be swept in real-time without glitches, clicks, pops, etc. Very smooth, very usable, and very easy to set up.
- Blake Stone
JBuilder R&D Inprise Corporation
580: Re: Backwards Sounds
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:17:56 -0700 From: Nick Jameson <njameson@EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: ########## 580: Re: Backwards Sounds
>Does anyone know of any "backwards" programs for the K2000 that I might >download or purchase for not too much dough? I'm specificly looking for >backwards guitar and cymbals, but anything'll do... > >Thanks >-- >Brad Ulreich >bradbu@erols.com
You can use the 'reverse' function in the DSP section on the sample page to make your own from your existing samples.
--Nick Jameson
508: Re: Win98 SCSI issues
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:34:22 -0300 From: Christian Guth <paoychris@CIUDAD.COM.AR> Subject: ########## 508: Re: Win98 SCSI issues
>> >SNIP< >> >By telling the controller to NOT scan the K's id, windows is never even >> aware of >> >the Kurzweil's existence, hence no problems.... yet any DRIVES in the K, >> having >> >their OWN scsi id can STILL get scanned & become an active part of the scsi >> chain >> >for BOTH the PC and The K..... >> > >> >So, unless some have particular needs to have the pc actually aware of the >> K's >> >scsi controller, this will work as a solution for either windows release! >> > >> >I hope this helps... >> > >> >Keni
433: Re: Backwards Sounds
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 03:35:13 -0500 From: "marsiglio.clif.c." <ccmarsig@IUPUI.EDU> Subject: ########## 433: Re: Backwards Sounds
Just in case yathought i forgot...then again maybe someone answered thissinceiwrote sometime ya yesterday.
to make a soud backwards, therearetwo places youcan do this. The harder one is in the SAMPLE:MISC parameters of playback. If you have multisamples like the grand piano patch this is a bitch...if you want to assign all samples within program to be reversed, edit the program you'dlike (try prg 2 piano sounds great like this...almost a serine organ like soudn til ya get to the loop.) Go to ky map and select playback mode and select reverse. You ight want to play with anotherselection aswell as it may elicit resuts that are even more to your liking...I rather prefer the bidirectionalsound of the piano over the plain reversed...
As I mentioned, if you haven't got a manual from the friend you a re borrowing this from, get one it will be very helpful...though you'll probably stillhave to consut the list for alot of thigs :)
clif t marsiglio
20: Re- My Orchestral ROM is not functioning
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:10:37 EDT From: David Fox <KURZWEIL@AOL.COM> Subject: ########## 20: Re- My Orchestral ROM is not functioning
Brujo,
It would not be unusual at all to get EPROMs with hand written labels. Our service department often burns EPROMs for the options as they are needed and would hand write the label. As to them being "second hand", that is simply not an issue. Since an EPROM is permanent once burned (at least until it is reburned), it makes absolutely no difference whether you start out with a chip that is blank or one that has already been burned before. The end result is the same.
215: Re: Hard drive installation problems
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:55:39 PDT From: Sebastian Bogaci <sebi007@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: ########## 215: Re: Hard drive installation problems
First of all read the k2000 manual and see if you need to turn off the k2000 SCSI jumpers ( termination ) then also if you have to use or not termination on hard drive. I only used a SCSI ZIP Drive with an K2000 which has a external connector for SCSI DB50 so I do not know your K2000 configuration.
Usually SCSI need termination on both ends of SCSI line. In the computers which I know better the Controller SCSI Card has built in the termination and the last SCSI device in the SCSI line has also to have the Termination ON, all the others have to be OFF.
Hope it will help you, sebi.
625: Re: Programming Q's
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:16:53 -0500 From: Jonathan Adams Leonard <jonathan@PLANET-NEPTUNE.COM> Subject: ########## 625: Re: Programming Q's
marsiglio.clif.c. wrote: > > It's 2:30 am and I can't sleep (could it be that I switched drugs of > choice and had 3 cappacinos and an iced latte just a few hours ago...damn > i knew caffeen was evil). > > ANyways, I've been getting some programming done that i've needed to do > for a long time and are now stumped on something. I'm working on some > templates for a few break beats/jungle stuff so that i don't haveto > sequence every damn thing. Background:Right now i'm using a three layer > program...layer 1 is a 4onthefloor...modwheel does some distortion on it. > 2 is the breakbeat....3 is a fill...data switches between 2&3 kinda > chaoticly...forget what funs i used with that. > > The problem I have is I have the pressure setting tempo/pitch (wish I had > a realtime method of changing the tempo without touching pitch and > visaversa...maybe k3k...). I am using a quantize b to a function with a > set to something like .38 so that i can move between 4 different tempi > (this effect all layers) but its bugging the hell out of me as the > quantize function seems a bit top heavy. To test out the values, I > switched input sources to data and sure enough it was the same there (I > thought i was using the pressure map and tried to edit one up that would > work better...too much work) On the data slider, I go to about 47% before > the first tempo change, 59/61% 2nd and ~76% for the last. > > My question isthis: how would I set up the funs to quantize these at the > 0,25,50,75% marks. Maybe this doesn't matter that much for this > application, but I caffeencrazed and its really bugging me (and would > probably be easier to control with better spacing). I love the funs but > really wish I could hack the system and create/alter a few for myself so I > can get the results i need with out having to think to much ;) > > clify t
What happens when you set 'A' to 0.25, instead of .38? I did a
regression on your values. y=m(14.5) + 32, with an r2 of 99%. That intercept of 32 looks like your '38'- I dunno. My rig is still in the shop so I can't experiment.
Something I was thinking: if the pressure values range from 0-127,
then if you want 25% switches going up, the switch points would be 31.75, 63.5, 95.25.
It might be helpful to pull up a midi monitor window(if you have a
computer based seqcr) to see what is going on- or an old trick: go into a matrix editor and create a note and edit its' velocity to a value. You would then change your fun from 'DATA' to velocity. Adjust the notes duration so the event lasts long enough so you can notice your edits.
If you don't have a computer, then use the onboard sequencer to record
your edits and check them out in the step editor. From there, you might be able to create a test sequence with the right controller values.
Also, it would help if you said what gear you have, for example what
controller you are using.
i myself try to strike a balance between substances- i have problems
with too much of one thing- besides, its boring.
i would keep trying, your idea here is pretty cool and once it works,
should fun-damn, bad pun, in performance.
-Jonathan
ps: I would switch mod wheel with pressure, mod for tempo, pressure for distortion. Just a thought-poof!
456: Re: I'm having polyphony problems
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:48:10 -0700 From: John Ruf <johnr@SR.HP.COM> Organization: Hewlett-Packard Subject: ########## 456: Re: I'm having polyphony problems
> ...when I record original music, even fairly simple compositions with 4 > or less tracks, I lose tones. For example, I could lose the entire left > hand on a piano track, or I may lose one note of a triad. Sometimes the > program just sounds thin, as if I'm not getting all the layers. It's very > frustrating.
It sounds like you may have a MIDI feedback loop going there. This happens when you connect your keyboard MIDI out to a computer sequencer MIDI in and the computer MIDI out to the keyboard MIDI in. If the computer sequencer is echoing its input back to its output then you could have a problem.
Think about what happens here. You play a note on the K and its sent out MIDI to the computer. The computer echos that back to the K and the K responds by playing the note again. This doubles the voice usage, thus eating polyphony real fast. Also, there is often a telltale sound to this. The second note is triggered a fraction of a second after the original, thus its out of phase. You can usually hear that phase shift (depending on what program it is) as either a fuller sound, or a phaser type sound, or even a thinner sound at times.
The solution is to break the loop, logically. There are several ways to do this. You could physically disconnect the MIDI in cable to the Kurz, but this is a pain and will not allow you to do multiple pass recording (do a track, play it back while recording another track). So a better way is to set the computer sequencer software so that it does not echo its input back to the output. This is often refered to as a Thru Control. This is the best method to break the loop, since the computer can still send notes to the Kurz, you can play live, and you can record what you are playing in the computer sequencer. One last way to break a loop is to go to the Kurz MIDI Recieve page and set it to MIDI control only (your choices are Local, MIDI, or both). This will tell it to send all your key events ONLY out the MIDI out port and not to respond to them directly. Then the outboard sequencer could echo them back and the Kurz responds to them that way (only 1 time).
-JR
467: Re: I'm having polyphony problems
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:42:33 +0200 From: Michael Hintz <101.100721@GERMANYNET.DE> Subject: ########## 467: Re: I'm having polyphony problems
Try to filter out the aftertouch messages on the tracks where the sound doesn´t need aftertouch information. When playing the K2500 it sends lots of afterouch bytes by default on every played sound and this might lead to an overrun of your midi bus.
Michael
Matkatamibakundo 11:30, 5 September 2006 (EDT)
